61
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on June 05, 2013, 06:33:50 PM »I found this:
http://hdl.handle.net/10088/2445
http://hdl.handle.net/10088/2445
April 03, 2025, 02:49:40 AM
Recent Posts
62
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on June 05, 2013, 12:37:44 AM »Here's a start on these.
Names of Stars of 1st Magnitude
Names of Stars of 2nd Magnitude
Names of Stars of 1st Magnitude
| [No.] | [Mod.] | Hebrew | Arabic |
| 1 | α Tau | ceyn ha-shor | al-dabarÄÂn |
| 2 | β Ori | regel te’omim | rijl jawzĠ|
| 3 | θ Eri | aharit ha-nahar | akhir al-nahr |
| 4 | α Ori | sad te’omim yemini | mankib al-jawzĠayman |
| 5 | α CMi | ha-kelev ha-qatan | shicrĠghumaysĠ|
| 6 | α CMa | kelev gadol | shicrĠcabūr |
| 7 | α Aur | moshekh ha-resen | al-cayyūq |
| 8 | α Boo | ha-nitmakh ha-romeah | simÄÂk al-rÄÂmih |
| 9 | α Vir | nitmakh lo’ mezuyyan | simÄÂk aczal |
| 10 | α Lyr | nesher nofel | nasr wÄÂqic |
| 11 | ζ Sgr | sof zenav ha-sus | asl dhanab al-faras |
| 12 | α Leo | lev ha-aryeh | qalb al-asad |
| 13 | α Cen | regel ha-sus ha-mequddam | rijl al-faras muqaddama |
| 14 | α PsA | pi ha-dag ha-deromi | fūm al-hūt al-janūbī |
Names of Stars of 2nd Magnitude
| [No.] | [Mod.] | Hebrew | Arabic |
| 1 | α And | ha-yad ha-sevuca | al-kaff al-khadīb |
| 2 | γ Ori | sad semol te’omim | mankib al-jawza |
| 3 | β Per | rosh ha-shed | ra’s al-ghūl |
| 4 | β Leo | zenav ha-ari | dhanab al-asad al sarfĠ|
| 5 | α CrB | nezer sefoni | al-fakka |
| 6 | α Sco | lev ha-caqrav | qalb al-caqrab |
| 7 | η UMa | ha-me’ir mi-benot cayish asher be-sof ha-zenav | |
| 8 | α Aql | ha-nesher ha-mecofef | al-nasr al-tÄÂ’ir |
| 9 | α Cyg | zenav ha-tarnegolet | al-ridf |
| 10 | ζ Cyg | arkovet ha-tarnegolet | rukbat al-dajÄÂja |
| 11 | β Peg | sad ha-sus ha-yemini | mankib al-faras |
| 12 | δ Leo | shidrat ha-ari | faqÄÂr al-asad |
| 13 | 15(c) Com | me’ir beyn zenav ha-ari veha-nitmakh kokhav | al-dhu’ÄÂba |
| 14 | α Car | kesil vehu’ meha-cerekh ha-rishon | suhayl |
63
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on June 04, 2013, 11:41:39 PM »Cool. I'll have a look about for it.
And yes, I was actually a Communications major, so the writing stuff and the development of a literate culture is nothing new to me (though as time passes, things take on a rosier glow).
And yes, I was actually a Communications major, so the writing stuff and the development of a literate culture is nothing new to me (though as time passes, things take on a rosier glow).
64
Other Mysteries / Re: Ciphers in Literature - Mystery of the Sea
« Last post by dodonovan on June 04, 2013, 01:06:45 PM »Sorry - I forgot to specify. The three weirds are three roads (as in dree my weird):
the way of the moon,
the way of the harvest - the sun's road and agricultural roster cf. Works and Days
The way of stars, but Orion here too as beginning and end.
D.
the way of the moon,
the way of the harvest - the sun's road and agricultural roster cf. Works and Days
The way of stars, but Orion here too as beginning and end.
D.
65
Other Mysteries / Re: Ciphers in Literature - Mystery of the Sea
« Last post by dodonovan on June 04, 2013, 12:51:14 PM »Knox,
I'm not able to help with your cipher, but the riddle isn't too difficult:
“To win the mystery o’ the sea,
[to learn mastery of maritime skills]
“An’ learn the secrets that there be,
[if you'd know all there is to know]
“Gather in ane these weirds three:
[bring together these three things/words]
“A gowden moon on a flowin’ tide;
[calculation of tides by the moon i.e. full moon, high tide]
“An’ Lammas floods for the spell to bide;
[remain at home in harvest time; or don't venture August's high tide. A traditional saying was that "August is a wicked month" . Don't ask me why.
“An’ a gowden mon wi death for his bride.â€Â
[the golden man is probably Orion, whose rsing brought an end to the sailing season. After losing an entire fleet, one Roman emperor famously blamed himself for ordering it to sea though Orion was risen. Other possibilities exist]
I'm surprised there's no mention of winds evident. But these may be implied, or the riddle invented.
Cheers
I'm not able to help with your cipher, but the riddle isn't too difficult:
“To win the mystery o’ the sea,
[to learn mastery of maritime skills]
“An’ learn the secrets that there be,
[if you'd know all there is to know]
“Gather in ane these weirds three:
[bring together these three things/words]
“A gowden moon on a flowin’ tide;
[calculation of tides by the moon i.e. full moon, high tide]
“An’ Lammas floods for the spell to bide;
[remain at home in harvest time; or don't venture August's high tide. A traditional saying was that "August is a wicked month" . Don't ask me why.
“An’ a gowden mon wi death for his bride.â€Â
[the golden man is probably Orion, whose rsing brought an end to the sailing season. After losing an entire fleet, one Roman emperor famously blamed himself for ordering it to sea though Orion was risen. Other possibilities exist]
I'm surprised there's no mention of winds evident. But these may be implied, or the riddle invented.
Cheers
66
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on June 03, 2013, 02:10:58 PM »Hmm. Ya, I can see your point.
English is still being modified, but today it's most obvious with text messages. In this case, modifications are still based mostly on phonetic transcriptions (eg. " r u srs?"). You're right that it doesn't follow that the culture is largely non-literate (although the lack of other Voynechese texts might support that). In today's English there is a sort of language schism between formal written language (lexicographic) and informal written language (based on the oral language).
Still, I think it's good to recognize that the assumption that the subject-matter experts were the people writing is an assumption. Could be true, but, could also not be true.
English is still being modified, but today it's most obvious with text messages. In this case, modifications are still based mostly on phonetic transcriptions (eg. " r u srs?"). You're right that it doesn't follow that the culture is largely non-literate (although the lack of other Voynechese texts might support that). In today's English there is a sort of language schism between formal written language (lexicographic) and informal written language (based on the oral language).
Still, I think it's good to recognize that the assumption that the subject-matter experts were the people writing is an assumption. Could be true, but, could also not be true.
67
Voynich Manuscript / Re: Computation approach to Circular Astrolabes
« Last post by Phil_The_Rodent on June 02, 2013, 03:47:26 PM »Some more thoughts in the interim.
A culture without a standardized lexicon of written words is not a writing society, but rather an oral tradition. In such a case, we might suppose that there would be a low number of written works (which is obviously true of Voynechese), and they would be based on phonetic transcription. I realize a fundamental assumption that seemingly everyone has made may, in this case, very well be wrong -- that is, that the subject matter experts were also the people who wrote it down.
A culture without a standardized lexicon of written words is not a writing society, but rather an oral tradition. In such a case, we might suppose that there would be a low number of written works (which is obviously true of Voynechese), and they would be based on phonetic transcription. I realize a fundamental assumption that seemingly everyone has made may, in this case, very well be wrong -- that is, that the subject matter experts were also the people who wrote it down.
68
Other Mysteries / Re: Ciphers in Literature - Mystery of the Sea
« Last post by Aaron on June 02, 2013, 11:50:01 AM »There's a modify button for your posts... 
I've not heard about this cipher before, nice find!
I've not heard about this cipher before, nice find!
69
Other Mysteries / Re: Ciphers in Literature - Mystery of the Sea
« Last post by Knox on June 02, 2013, 11:46:45 AM »Correction.
"On the HTML version, there are four lines of handwritten symbols ..."
Should be:
"On the HTML version, there are six full lines of handwritten symbols ..."
"On the HTML version, there are four lines of handwritten symbols ..."
Should be:
"On the HTML version, there are six full lines of handwritten symbols ..."
70
Other Mysteries / Ciphers in Literature - Mystery of the Sea
« Last post by Knox on June 02, 2013, 11:36:30 AM »The Mystery of the Sea by Bram Stoker
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/42455
On the HTML version, there are six full lines of handwritten symbols and a short series of smaller symbols above the end of the last line. The name of the image is "gaelic.png".
Below that is:
“To win the mystery o’ the sea,
“An’ learn the secrets that there be,
“Gather in ane these weirds three:
“A gowden moon on a flowin’ tide;
“An’ Lammas floods for the spell to bide;
“An’ a gowden mon wi death for his bride.â€Â
"[Gælic verse and English translation.]"
I didn't win the "mystery o' the sea". I can't make any sense of it.
Is the handwriting really Gaelic? What kind of Gaelic? It doesn't look as if it would rhyme.
Then, after the contents, is a series of single digits separated by spaces.
I thought it would be a simple substitution so I paired the digits:
32 33 36 21 43 31 81 94 72 33 12 38 29 34 11 86 21 34 42 75 16 11 34
23 33 16 81 46 33 52 19 36 48 15 32 13 82 63 43 18 43 21 31 44 32 45
71 68 11 32 03 43 51 66 16 18 16 32 27 11 28 59 23 64 11 81 24 37 36
28 10 12 43 35 44 99 63 43 61 61 42 38 23 12 37 41 28 11 61 81 28 16
16 21 14 61 13 81 16 18 90 61 26 72 13 22 32 33 64 11 88 14 27 36 12
32 12 63 18 12 43 31 61 49 11 84 33 16 84 81 14 11 88 16 91 10 64 51
03 32 13 14 38 31 23 12 43 34 53 26 14 32 33 22 34 39 66 14 25 32 33
22 33 14 81 81 32 43 31 04 33 27 66 12 62 37 32 23 55 21 25 47 21 80
Skimming the text, I found:
(a) Bacon's Cipher mentioned. Also, something about using fingers of both hands to sign [25 different] letters.
(b) Method of breaking a long cipher, which I think is not in the text.
There might be a reference to the series of digits in the text but I didn't see it.
It developed that, as I arranged them, there are 62 distinct pairs of digits, 34 repeated.
Rank pair freq. count
1 32 6.5217 12
2 33 5.4348 10
3 11 4.8913 9
4 16 4.8913 9
5 43 4.8913 9
6 12 4.3478 8
7 81 4.3478 8
8 14 3.8043 7
9 21 3.2609 6
10 61 3.2609 6
11 23 2.7174 5
12 31 2.7174 5
13 34 2.7174 5
14 13 2.1739 4
15 18 2.1739 4
16 28 2.1739 4
17 36 2.1739 4
18 22 1.6304 3
19 27 1.6304 3
20 37 1.6304 3
21 38 1.6304 3
22 63 1.6304 3
23 64 1.6304 3
24 66 1.6304 3
25 03 1.0870 2
26 10 1.0870 2
27 25 1.0870 2
28 26 1.0870 2
29 42 1.0870 2
30 44 1.0870 2
31 51 1.0870 2
32 72 1.0870 2
33 84 1.0870 2
34 88 1.0870 2
Repeated pairs of pairs
11-88 2
12-43 3
16-18 2
32-33 4
33-16 2
33-22 2
43-31 3
63-43 2
64-11 2
Doubles
16-16 1
61-61 1
81-81 1
I might have missed some.
